Cape Cod Institute
 
Behavior OnLine Forums  
The gathering place for Mental Health and
Applied Behavior Science Professionals.
 
Become a charter member of Behavior OnLine.

Go Back   Behavior OnLine Forums > BOL Forums > Classical Adlerian Psychotherapy

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Unread October 21st, 2004, 01:14 PM
Trevor Hjertaas Trevor Hjertaas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: St. Thomas, Ont.
Posts: 36
Default Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

I would like to respnd to Bob Powers' interesting comment that individuals with sociopathic personalities lack inferiority feeling and Lida Izadi's query concerning that.

I would say that it appears "as-if" a psychopathic individual lacks inferiority feelings (especially when you interact with one) since they are so intolerant of this feeling within themselves (Adlerians, of course, would technically re-formulate diagnostic entities into a deeper understanding that an individual has a certain style-of-life which manifests in such a way that one could classify him or her as psychopathic, and this is what I mean when I refer to them as such). Reid Meloy, a prominent figure in forensic circles, characterizes psychopaths as "aggressive narcissists" (which would explain the "souring self-esteem" with Bob Powers mentions). Meloy's theory (following Kernberg and Kohut) is that there is a core a vulnerability (akin to feelings of inferiority) in these individuals, but that they project these feelings onto others and then do some kind of harm to these other people, almost as if they were destroying these externalized inferiority feelings, or the vulnerable aspect of themselves. This is, of course, only a theory, but a useful one - I think - for understanding such people. I could imagine that such a dynamic might be at work in the scenario which George vividly describes.

Trevor Hjertaas, Psy. D.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Unread October 21st, 2004, 02:08 PM
James Wolf James Wolf is offline
Associate Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11
Default Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

My understanding of sociopaths and criminal personalities - not by any means being any kind of expert on the subject - is that in thier histories there has often been serious abuse or to the other extreme, serious pampering. Adler said this, but also this has, to my memory, been validated by those working in prisons with these personalites. This would seem to me to indicate that as children many experienced overburdening situations with the resulting inferiority feelings. Anyone in this discussion have exeprience here??
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Unread October 26th, 2004, 06:24 PM
George Neeson George Neeson is offline
Associate Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Elizabethtown, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 195
Unhappy Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

James I do not think in my limited experience, that it is even that basic. Certainly overburdening cirumstances may be an issue, but what do we do then when a child is raised in what appears to be a very loving and encouraging home when they choose a wrong path in life? I suppose we could suspect that they felt they could not live to this standard. As always in Adler's psychology, that is the danger of using "diagnostic catagories". Each person is unique (Individual in German), and all of these "neat package" concepts fail to address the single person we are dealing with. That is one of the reasons I adamantly refuse to use DSM in its various flavours unless the patient will suffer a financial penalty at the hands of an insurance agency dominated by a psychiatrist of a certain flavour. Then I get out the handbook and try to find the closest fit in the descriptive part of the catalogue, then use that to try to get coverage for the patient. I hate doing that but it falls into the class of "necessary evils".
__________________
George Neeson M.D.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Unread October 26th, 2004, 06:33 PM
George Neeson George Neeson is offline
Associate Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Elizabethtown, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 195
Question Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

I am not neglecting getting this project on the runway. What I am struggling with is where the "ground" is. From where must I build? What is the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) among reasonably informed people that will neither insult their intelligence, nor will it be above what untrained people might reasonably be expected to know? I am finding that a real difficult thing. I do believe that I must start with the philosophic underpinnings, but where can I reasonably commence? I suspect it will be in the area of the "person among mankind" and the deep sense of equality. Something to do with "contributing to the stream of human evolution" "sub Specie Aeternitatis" (And clearly I need spell check help )

Well that is what I am considering starting with. Any other suggestions for a good jumping off point would be appreciated deeply.
__________________
George Neeson M.D.

Last edited by George Neeson; November 30th, 2004 at 09:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Unread October 26th, 2004, 08:18 PM
sslavik sslavik is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 13
Default Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

George, how about starting simple? Make some kind of claim to which others can respond, and then see how it goes. Perhaps make aclaim of one sentence or one idea, and see what comes of it.... Start with an idea that seems obvious to you and we can see if it is obvious to everyone--or not. Steve
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Unread October 27th, 2004, 07:08 AM
George Neeson George Neeson is offline
Associate Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Elizabethtown, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 195
Default Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

Steve sounds like a great idea. It will bring a greater sense of cooperation to the project. Thanks.
__________________
George Neeson M.D.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Unread October 27th, 2004, 01:48 PM
Henry Stein Henry Stein is offline
Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Posts: 399
Default Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

Another adjacent perspective, on the issue of inferiority feelings in the criminal, is offered by Samenow and Yochelson in "The Criminal Mind," Volume I. They believe that the criminal fears being reduced to a "nothing" more than anything else. In his thinking there are no gradations between being "tops" and being "nothing". He usually assesses a situation in extremes, perceiving it as better or worse than it is. His "Zero state" has three components: seeing the self as nothing; transparency, other can see his worthlessness; the state is permanent, it will last forever and never change. A prolonged difficulty in an important area of his life is more likely to lead to a zero state than a single putdown. The inferiority feelings of the non-criminal are usually not all-encompassing, as those of the zero state. The non-criminal may be afraid that others will find out about his shortcomings; the criminal is certain that others already know.

Also, Alexander Mueller stated that many people do not consciously feel inferior, but live with an anxiety about being confronted with a challenge that will prove them to be inferior. Sophia de Vries believed that some people do not even have the emotional sensitivity to feel inferior.

George, since you want to build from the ground up, what about starting with a discussion about how, when, and why inferiority feelings develop in the young child?
__________________
Henry T. Stein, Ph.D,

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Unread October 27th, 2004, 02:51 PM
Manu Jaaskelainen Manu Jaaskelainen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kerava, Finland
Posts: 68
Default Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

It seems that inferiority feelings are an essential part of human condition. It is a part of human existence that human beings are born helpless, that they need adults to take care of them, to nourish them, to protect them. As they grow up, they start to feel that it is a shame to be a child, to be helpless, to be dependent. They want to grow big, powerful, and they want to dominate their parents. During this process some of their attempts must be prohibited. A rivalry develops. At the same time, children normally have a very strong social feeling. If everything develops normally, this social feeling gets stronger, and a rational argumentation with the growing child is possible. Extreme punishments in education, physical and/or psychological abuse, lack of any logic in the adult behavior, laissez-faire methods, or simply not taking care of the child may inhibit the normal growth of social feeling. In this case, a power-struggle will be the method to dominate the environment, not the attempt to be a useful member of the community. So inferiority is the basic challenge to human growth, and growing social feeling is the right answer. - How about ideas like this one?

Last edited by Manu Jaaskelainen; October 28th, 2004 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Minor linguistic corrections
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Unread October 27th, 2004, 06:28 PM
George Neeson George Neeson is offline
Associate Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Elizabethtown, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 195
Smile Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

Manu I think you and I and Henry are all on the same page. My feeling is that I would like to go all the way back to the day of our conception. Something like ... "It all started one night when we were not even there. They did not nor could they, seek our permission. Two humans acted to produce us. For nine months we lay helpless in the dark warmth of the mother's womb bathed in the soothing amniotic fluid as one "uninvited", a guest in the body of another. Suddenly and with great pain we are exploded into the cold world of light and noise. We were forced out through that long dark passage with suffocating pressure. The gentle lub dub of mother's heart became a distant memory. We became utterly dependent on another. We were helpless and totally at the mercy of another's social interest. We were with no power and we began to see our own fragility. We began to feel less, to feel as nothing, to feel inferior!"

I want to show the very "primal nature" of the inferiority feeling and the dire necessity of social interest as the observations that start to set Adler aside as unique in his perspective, but I hope to do it with a "bit of artistic flair" to draw in the reader.
__________________
George Neeson M.D.

Last edited by George Neeson; October 27th, 2004 at 08:47 PM. Reason: spelling and clarity again and again
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Unread October 28th, 2004, 10:46 AM
Abe Abelson Abe Abelson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1
Default Re: From the ground up ... an Adlerian primer??

I think this is a wonderful idea, one which could be useful to both newcomers and oldtimers (and everyone in between.) Having a new child, I rarely get to visit the forum these days, but I would be very interested in reading this!

Thanks so much for the offer to get this going!

Abe Abelson
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995-2004 Behavior OnLine, Inc. All rights reserved.