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Unread July 18th, 2006, 09:29 AM
TomJrzk TomJrzk is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas
Posts: 257
Default Re: free will, determinism, and morality

Great post, I agree with almost everything you wrote; no, that's not why I think it's a great post .
Originally Posted by alexandra_k
Water is H2O. It is a structured arrangement of H2O molecules. If you consider an H2O molecule it does not have the property of liquidity.
But, we can understand that the molecule's structure makes it polar, thus the extra attraction that gives it liquidity. I'd love to see an analog for the emergent property of free will; then I'd believe it.
Originally Posted by alexandra_k
But it is a dispute over a name

I can't see what your view buys us that mine does not
I think it brings us a lot of clarity: people are not ultimately responsible for their actions but we must react to and control some of their actions for the sake of the future. Plus, we can think of someone as being unfortunate rather than evil.

Finally, I think it is right, will is simply not free. You could say something about will being free from 'outside' influences, if you did, I'd have to consider it. I'd be able to agree with you if it truly was free, but you're not even arguing that. You want to be able to say "free will" for historical purposes when we now know that there is no soul or spirit that could effect that freedom; if someone loses the regret module in their brain, their character, soul, spirit is instantly changed. You want to talk about a free will that's not free.

If people understand that there is no free will, they are much closer to believing the truth (as far as we know it): that there is no god. As long as scientists use the term "free will", and don't show its ultimate cause, even I am apt to insert 'soul'.
Originally Posted by alexandra_k
I'd like my view to be agnostic (neither requiring nor denying God)
I, too, am an uncommitted atheist (I got slammed by an atheist for calling myself an agnostic). The original dictionary definition was something like "one who believes that god is unknowable", it may have been redefined since.
Originally Posted by alexandra_k
I can leave out the scare quotes...
I prefer to call them 'so called' quotes .
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