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Jeffrey Zeig July 2nd, 2004 01:25 AM

Welcome
 
Stephen Lankton, forum leader, and I, Jeff Zeig, co-leader, welcome you to the Forum about Milton Erickson and Erickson-derived approaches to psychotherapy and hypnosis.

Stephen Lankton July 3rd, 2004 03:54 AM

Re: Welcome
 
For those of you who are migrating from the original forum, we are sorry that all the great discussions that appeared there are no longer displayed. The best thing to solve this situation is to begin a slew of terrific discussions here! Don't be shy about being the first person to begin.

Amanulla Karimi July 16th, 2004 05:58 PM

Multiple-Personality vs. Schizophrenia...
 
I work in Arabia... and here, Multiple-Personality disorders r very common. Such disorders r tackled here by the clergy, by whom we r considered lay people...
My Hypnosis training was in USSR, and I do group sessions...
In a seminar, I was supposed to show the difference between MP and Schizophrenia. It was the first time I invite some Schizophrenics and some MPs... they were scattered among the attendees, with most of the attendees not knowing each other...
I thought, in the first part, I would do an induction to hypnotize the group. And in the second part, I will have each member of the group voice out his experiences... having all that filmed, in the next meeting I can point out the differences...
However, after the Hypnosis part, a small break was given... in that break, a an argument brike out between the schizos and the MPs... the schizos being a bit insulting to the MPs, and the MPs threatening to beat up the schizos...
The amazing thing is that the MPs and Schizos recognized each other easily...
The group interfered, and an end was put to that fight...
At another seminar, another group of MPs and Schizos were invited... nobody knew who they were (thinking they r attendees like the rest)... and pretty much the same fight developed...
From my knowledge, Arabic language creates multiple relations, and multiple meanings (u sit = she is named)...
Can such results be generalized to include relations between different cultures?
Any thoughts on why this happened?
Appreciate ur reply...

Stephen Lankton July 18th, 2004 04:29 AM

Re: Welcome
 
I understand much of what you wrote, although, I may have had a language problem with some of what you stated and asked. Nevertheless, you are asking about group dynamics and individuals with difficulties that resulted from their upbringing. A useful framework for this problem sheds a good deal of light on this dynamic. That is, the monkey experiments conducted by Harlow. These are very well known. Small groups of (basically) identical monkeys were reared by different mothers. One group by a real monkey mother. One group was given a cloth covered replica of a monkey mother to cling on to. The third group was given a wire frame of a monkey mother. The results were prophetic. The real mother produced monkeys who would interact and follow the expected norms. The cloth mother produced monkey children who were aggressive and belligerent (combative). The wire mother produced monkey children who appeared frightened and prefered to stay in the corners.
It sounds like your participants stratified along similar line, and, for similar reasons. I hope I answered your question.

Amanulla Karimi July 18th, 2004 03:28 PM

Re: Welcome
 
Sorry Steve... Monkey model might not apply here...
If we beleive that MP is created through language, then Monkey Model does not apply... also, I am not sure that u have encountered any schizophrenic monkies where u r... therefore, again, Monkey Model does not apply...
And I will rephrase the question...
In those experiments, it was always the schizophrenic who would pick on the MP, usually by a remark that would infuriate the other...
Do they recognize each other as enemies? How?
I thought I would get a reply in terms of conscious-subconscious...
Please, involve the subconscious in ur reply... I know Monkies have No subconscious...

Stephen Lankton July 21st, 2004 03:01 AM

Re: Welcome
 
I have to stick to the "Monkey Model" a bit longer - I believe parenting (and not nature) forms or shatters the personality that creates both of this "diseases". And too, older money's communicated just as humans do to trigger expectations and knowledge of their interactions and roles. Both of these elements apply fully to your groups.

Of course, this is a metaphor, to help convey the idea...and help shape one's understanding of what is somewhat more complicate. Both situations involve the same parallels to an exent. MP are picked on by Schiz in your groups / but with the monkey's the most poorly parented monkeys are picked on the the slightly better parented ones. We would tend to think the Schiz were more poorly parented...so the analogy does not apply at that point in the human group. Still, you have Schiz with enough adjustment to be out in public (not the ones clinging to the walls of the hospital ward somewhere - those would match the Harlow monkey analogy).

But you have a "better adjusted" (so to speak) of Schiz in your public group. So we have to wonder if there are communication factors at work to signal and establish roles. With humans their is (may be) an additional aspect of attempts to defend against psychological threat that is created due to (at least) the communication.

Consider the Jay Haley formula (1963): All communcication contains these 4 points, 1) I, 2) am communication this, 3) to you, 4) in this context. The schiz will alter more of these more often than others will. This will create a pretty big threat to others and especially if any similar ambiguity in the family of origin of your MPs was associated with threat (and it seem reasonalble that this could be). So, the MP sense a threat they need to stop. They could try stopping it by arguement (which would be hopeless against the Schiz frame of reference), by combative behavior (there's a fight), or by withdrawal (then they are like the wire-mother monkey being further persued to fight). Two out of 3 end in fight and the first one will eventually have to end by turning into one of those other two! So, 3 out of 3 options end up as you observed.

If you are asking what are the actual 'signaling communcations' that takes place and how to best codify the communication styles involved in these interpersonal negotiations, you would do well to see the Harlow tapes and get some ideas (which I'm sure you would), or show me tapes of the real people in question. But I urge you not to dismiss Harlow a joke, if you did I think you might be under-estimating a mammal here or there. It backs up your observation very well and requires just a bit of improvement due to the complexity of the added human sophitication. If you were to publish your accounts, you really will want to site Harlow and add the necessary adjustments you find. It could make a good/great addendum to that famous work.

William Young July 24th, 2005 06:33 AM

Re: Welcome
 
I just subscribed today and I'm really glad to have found an Online Community on psychology and behavior that seems to be well build .

I have been studying Milton's work for a while now and I'm wondering if there is any Good Quality Audio of milton in action either in wave format or in mp3 that is being shared or downloaded. All I seem to find is very poor quality mp3 (64kbs) sessions and courses wich are still very educative but since tonality, pitch, synthax and the ranges of the voice are essentials attributes to learn I would like to be able to get some clear audio of Milton.
If anyone knows or have some material to share or links.. I'd be really interested to know.

Jeffrey Zeig July 25th, 2005 08:37 AM

Re: Welcome
 
Hmm. If there are audio files of Dr. Erickson being shared on the Internet, I would be glad to know so that we can pursue the piracy. The Milton Erickson Foundation markets CDs of Dr. Erickson's early lectures, www.erickson-foundation.org

Jeffrey K. Zeig, Ph.D.
Director

Jeffrey Zeig July 25th, 2005 08:44 AM

Evolution of Psychotherapy
 
The new Evolution of Psychotherapy site has been launched. SeeL www.evolutionofpsychotherapy.com

Jeff


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